Friday, May 1, 2009

Is Science The Only True Form of Knowledge?

This paper was originally written for a course in apologetics which I am pursuing at Biola University.



Science is a wonderful pursuit and it is an understatement to say that it has provided mankind with many great and helpful achievements and benefits. But sometimes the subject of science is presented in such a way that a false understanding is given. The false understanding is that science alone provides all knowledge, or, at least, all true knowledge of importance or value.

It’s helpful for us to know that we do not have to negate the significant achievements of science in order to realize that there is important knowledge outside of science.

I present to you a few examples of knowledge that are not provided to us by science, in fact, these forms of knowledge are assumed to be true in order to pursue science. The important understanding here is that science does not prove these examples of knowledge to be true, it must assume that they are true as a starting point.

1) Science assumes that an orderly world exists. Scientific experiments are conducted based upon observable, repeatable tests. The assumption that science makes, but does not prove, is that the orderly condition of the physical world exists in such a way that these experimental findings will always hold true when performed under the same conditions. We could say it like this: The scientist assumes that the physical world will work in a consistent and orderly way, thus assuring the continued reliability of his or her findings.

But who says that this consistent, orderly world will continue tomorrow the way it always has in the past?

You say, “Well, we just know it will. It always has in the past and, therefore, we assume that it always will in the future.”

Yes, exactly. We make that assumption. And, so far, we have found that it basically holds. That’s why we can and do rely so heavily on it. But that is not proof that it will continue, in fact, if you think about it, our trust in the physical world’s consistent orderly workings is something very much like faith.

Again, this is not something which science knows or proves, it is assumed in order for scientific investigation to proceed.

2) Science assumes that logic works. We all rely, every day, on the validity of logic. We take for granted that it works because, much like our experience of an orderly physical world, our consistent experience is that, indeed, logic works and it comports with reality.

One of the fundamental laws of logic is the law of noncontradiction. The law of noncontradiction can be stated like this: “For any property F, nothing can be both F and not-F at the same time and in the same way.” (DeWeese and Moreland, Philosophy Made Slightly Less Difficult)

All of us have experienced firsthand the truth of the law of noncontradiction. We find that it works, in fact, it always works. Scientists live in the same world as all the rest of us and they, too, assume that the laws of logic work. They proceed with the assumption of the validity of logic in order to engage in their pursuits.

But the important point is that the findings of science do not prove the laws of logic, rather, they assume the laws of logic, in advance, in order to proceed.

3) Truths of morality are non-scientific, they are accepted truths which are not provided to us through the scientific method. Moral truths present us with the concept of “ought”. In other words, our moral conscience tells us that there are things we ought to do or we ought not do.

We can especially perceive the reality of the moral ought when we are personally wronged. Consider a scenario like this:

“Hey, that guy walked up and took my wallet for no reason, I don’t even know him!”

“So, what’s the problem with that?”

“What do you mean, what’s the problem? He’s not allowed to do that. It’s wrong.”

Why is this wrong? Says who? Where does this moral “ought” come from? Why do we experience it? Why can’t he take your wallet if he’s bigger and stronger and he wants to?

The answer is that we all know this is wrong. We just simply know it. A child with no significant religious or moral training knows it.

But our question is, why? The explanations for morality from evolutionary scientists have been inadequate.

A right thinking person will accept the reality of moral absolutes. But these truths are not discovered or explained by science. It is, yet, another form of knowledge that science cannot provide to us or explain for us.

Again, we can and we do appreciate and acknowledge the great importance of science and recognize the good it has done and the tremendous ways that it has benefited us. At the same time, it does not diminish science to say that there are forms of knowledge which science cannot tell us about. It is simply an acknowledgement that there are other true, valid, important forms of knowledge in addition to what is provided by science.

Daniel L. Marler
Oak Lawn, IL

Tuesday, April 28, 2009

Want To Get Great? Better Get Busy.

Review of: The Talent Code, Daniel Coyle


How do people get good at something? Wait a minute, that’s the not the right question, how do people get great at something?

Well, frankly, there has been a significant amount of research on the matter of human performance and the development of skill/talent. Author, Daniel Coyle, has looked at the research and he also went on a road trip to what he calls “talent hotbeds”, places where great talent has been produced out of proportion to their size and perceived stature; for example, a Russian tennis club, a music school in Dallas, a soccer field in Brazil, and others.

Coyle shares what he learned in this excellent book, “The Talent Code”.

The Talent Code covers three basic areas:

1) Deep practice. Practice is important to world-class performance. I guess everyone knew that already, huh? Well, sometimes, it doesn’t hurt to remind of everyone of the obvious. What might be a little more helpful is the understanding of “how” to practice. What constitutes “deep practice”? This is the kind of practice that separates the great from the not-so-great.

The understanding of “deep practice” involves an understanding of a substance called “myelin”. Myelin is the insulation that wraps around nerve fibers. According to Coyle, myelin turns out to be a very big deal in the development of skill. Myelin is increased through deep practice and, in turn, increased myelin affects the signal strength, speed and accuracy of the electric signals traveling through nerve fibers. This increase of myelin and its effect on neurons has more to do with skill development than had previously been realized.

2) Ignition. If a person is going to invest the amount of time and passion and concentrated, difficult practice that produces high-level skill, that person will have to be deeply motivated. This is the aspect of skill development that Coyle refers to as “ignition”. Coyle writes, “Where deep practice is a cool, conscious act, ignition is a hot, mysterious burst, an awakening.” This deep passion is a necessary part of the attainment of great skill.

3) Master coaching. World class talent requires help and feedback and guidance from disciplined, committed, coaches. Think of this as the wise, older sage who can tell the student what he can’t tell himself. The development of great skill seems to require the help of people who have the ability to grow talent in others.

Much of the content of “The Talent Code” reminded me of the book, “Talent Is Overrated” by Geoff Colvin, they contain many of the same insights regarding the development of talent. I loved both of these books and they are both worth reading. One of the encouraging and motivating truths that these books reveal is that great skill can be attained by virtually anyone who is willing to sincerely and passionately make the necessary commitment to its development. But, as one of the lines in the book suggests . . . “Better get busy.”

Dan Marler
Oak Lawn, IL

www.VisitUsOnline.org

Saturday, April 18, 2009

It’s an interesting thing with God. He will usually communicate with us in ways that involve some subtlety. There’s a Bible passage that refers to the “still small voice” of God [1 Kings 19:12]. And that’s very true. Usually—it doesn’t have to be this way, God can do whatever He wants, but, usually—when God communicates, it’s not with a loud, booming, attention-grabbing voice, like that guy from the Orange Glo commercials. Rather, it’s with a still small voice. That phrase has been translated, “a gentle whisper”.

The reason He tends to communicate with us very subtly is that He doesn’t want to coerce us to listen and obey. His desire is that we listen and obey Him because we choose to do so. Obviously, God could create humans as a kind of robot in which we would always do whatever He wanted us to do.

But what kind of relationship would that be? How many of us want Robot Friends that like us and relate with us because they have no other choice, we’ve programmed them to do so? God wants a genuine relationship with us. He wants a relationship of love. He wants a relationship where we have freely chosen to listen and obey.

If God communicated with us through the power of His direct presence, we’d have no choice. Our obedience would be coerced through sheer fear. That’s not what God wants.

So, be alert and listen carefully. Pay attention to those intuitions, something subtle might be coming your way.

Dan Marler

Sunday, April 12, 2009

The Hope of Easter

Easter is, obviously, all about the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But the celebration of Easter also provides the benefit of great hope to Christians.

A significant aspect of this hope is the belief that there is “something more”. There seems to be a desire wired into humans to know that our existence involves something more than just this life in the here and now. As you might imagine, I encounter this reality every time I officiate at a funeral.

Without the belief in something more—something beyond this life in the here and now—we are inclined toward hopelessness. The Apostle Paul writes, “And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world.”

In other words: If this life is all there is then we are hopeless.

It’s interesting to note that influential atheist thinkers agree with this idea. Believing that this life is all that there is, Bertrand Russell wrote, “Only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair can the soul’s habitation henceforth be safely built.” (Emphasis added)

Can you see why Russell was not invited to many Easter parties?

Again, it’s interesting to see an important atheist thinker come to the same conclusion as the Bible: If this brief life is the end and there is nothing else then it’s a pretty sad affair and, according to Russell, the very foundation of life would be despair.

The hope that Christians have in Easter is that we share in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Because He lives, we can live. There is something more. This is what stirs true hope.

It is my sincere desire that all who read this will know the peace, comfort, and inner assurance of true hope!

Dan Marler

Tuesday, April 7, 2009

E-Flash From Dan, April 7, 2009

Dear E-Flash Friends;

“You rarely hear about it on the news. You rarely even hear about it in churches in the West, in the East, or even in the Middle East. But the big, untold story is that more Muslims are coming to faith in Jesus Christ today than at any other time in history.”

This is a passage that I read, recently, in a fascinating book by a man named Joel Rosenberg (“Inside The Revolution”, Tyndale). Joel is Jewish man who is an Evangelical Christian. That’s interesting in and of itself. He is a successful writer and communications strategist for people such as former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Joel has spoken and traveled all over the world and been featured on ABC’s Nightline, CNN Headline News, the FOX News Channel, the History Channel, MSNBC and many others. He has addressed audiences in Russia, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey and he has spoken at the White House.

His writings about issues affecting Christianity and Judaism and Islam are based on first-hand travel to the Middle East numerous times and interviews with world leaders and military leaders.

I mention a few of his credentials so you will understand that he is a man with some credibility.

Joel quotes the leader of a Christian ministry in Iran who says, “Based on all the things we are seeing inside Iran today, I personally believe that if every Iranian who secretly believes in Jesus could come forward right now and declare his or her faith publicly, the number would top a million.”

Notice that this is happening in Iran. That is extraordinary! The gospel of Jesus Christ is going forth powerfully and effectively in our world. Even in some of the most hostile-to-Christianity places on earth.

I’m sorry, I can’t resist just one more quote. Rosenberg writes, “what intrigues me is not simply that the [Christian leaders in the Middle East] say the greatest spiritual awakening in the history of the Middle East is under way. What intrigues me is that Islamic leaders are worrying in public that a Christian surge is taking place in the region.”

Did you catch that line? “The greatest spiritual awakening in the history of the Middle East.” The Kingdom of Jesus Christ is advancing. Isn’t it great to be a part of His Kingdom?

(Psst! I skipped ahead to the end of the book and read the conclusion already: Jesus’ Kingdom prevails!)

The longer I serve Him and the more I study other worldviews and other religious systems and other philosophical points of view, the more I am attracted to the truth and the beauty of Jesus. He is absolutely compelling. And I admit that I am biased, but no one else and nothing else compares with Him! He stands alone in a category all by himself.

This week we have the privilege of remembering him and honoring him and worshiping him as we remember the single most eternity-altering event in all of human history: The Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It’s Tuesday as I write this E-Flash and I can’t wait for the weekend to get here so that we can celebrate Easter together! (Actually, it’s probably a good thing that the weekend isn’t here, yet, since I still have to write the message. But I’m excited, nevertheless.)

Our Good Friday service will be, April 10, at 7 pm.
And our Easter services will be Saturday, April 11, at 5 pm, and Sunday, April 12, at 9 and 11 am.

I look forward to seeing you all.

Remember, this is a great time to invite someone. People go to church on Easter. Can you think of someone you could invite?

Blessings,

Dan

Thursday, March 5, 2009

E-Flash From Dan, March 5, 2009

E-Flash Quote:

“He’d had to make his way alone, and no one—not rock stars, not professional athletes, not software billionaires, not even geniuses—ever makes it alone.”
Malcolm Gladwell, Outliers



Dear E-Flash Friends;

I picked up my brand new bifocals, two days ago. I’ve never had bifocals before. Since then I’ve fallen down the stairs twice, wandered unknowingly into dangerous traffic, and had a fifteen minute conversation with Nadia that turned out to occur while I was in a room by myself.

. . . And I haven’t even started wearing the new glasses yet. [Comic rim shot, here.]

But I was told that this was all a normal part of the adjustment procedure. So, pretty soon things should be fine.

How’s your life going? Good, I hope.

I always like to send out a little reminder about the time change prior to the conversion to “Daylight Savings Time”. So, don’t forget to move your clock ahead one hour this Saturday night, March 7th.

By the way, hope you’re planning to be here this Sunday. We’re going to look at a very important and encouraging and well known passage of Scripture, Ephesians chapter 2, verses 8-10. This passage contains wonderful, hopeful truth about the incredible saving grace of God and His excellent work in our lives. I believe we will be blessed.

We have had very good attendance at church, lately. It sure seems like people are in a spiritually receptive mood, these days. So, this would a great time for all of us to take a little risk and invite someone to church. Can you think of someone you could invite? Who knows what God might do? I’m praying for something exciting!

Have a great week.

Blessings,

Dan


P.S. Don’t forget that we’ll be showing the video presentation of “Indescribable” on Sunday evening at 5:30 p.m. It’s a highly rated, “image-rich journey through the cosmos, allowing us to peer into God’s universe to discover the amazing magnitude of His greatness and grace.”

Tuesday, November 18, 2008

How Do They Get So Good?

Review of: "Talent Is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin

Geoff Colvin deals with a fascinating and worthwhile subject: How do extraordinary, world-class performers get to be so good? This is an outstanding book!

The basic argument of the book is that high level skill is achieved primarily through tons and tons of hard work over a long period of time. (In other words, I’ll have to write a lot more book reviews in order to start getting more people to find my reviews “helpful”.) So, rather than innate skill or some kind of mysterious “giftedness” being the cause of exceptional performance, Colvin writes, “[t]he factor that seems to explain the most about great performance is something the researchers call deliberate practice.” The concept of “deliberate practice”—which is a little bit more rigorous and demanding than what might be thought of as “practice” in the more general sense—is explained with some detail in the book.

In addition to disputing the idea of some kind of special giftedness, Colvin disputes the idea of high IQ or special innate ability for memory as explanations for superior ability and achievement. In fact, his chapter that deals with the development of memory, among those who require it in their field of endeavor, was very enlightening.

“Talent Is Overrated” deals with the study of peak performance in a broad range of fields of including the arts, science, business, chess, music, writing and sports and provides interesting stories and examples of the world class achievers in the various disciplines. This is helpful because it is interesting to see that the principles of great performance apply—at least in a basic sense—in a pretty general way to all fields of endeavor.

Leaders will be interested to note that Colvin explains the application of some of the key concepts of exceptional performance to organizations rather than just looking at the matter as it applies to individuals.

Because the bottom line of great performance is identified as years of “deliberate practice”, Colvin states that the “deepest question about great performance” is this: “Where Does The Passion Come From?” It’s a fantastic question and I’m glad that he dealt with the issue. Why do the world class performers submit to the long, exhausting, difficult, often painful work that is required to achieve their level of mastery? Is the motivation intrinsic or extrinsic, or a little of both? That is the subject of the last chapter of the book.

I find the message of “Talent Is Overrated” to be extremely encouraging and motivating because it convincingly reports that you do not have to blessed at birth in some super-human way in order to develop exceptional skill in your field—I’m already out of luck if that’s the case. This means high-level performance is possible—with a lot of hard work—even for us mere mortals.

Dan Marler
Oak Lawn, IL

Wednesday, November 5, 2008

Nothing We Desire Can Compare With Wisdom, Proverbs 8

Review of: "Loving Wisdom" by Paul Copan.

Loving Wisdom provides solid and interesting theology, apologetics and philosophy.

The whole book is good, but I found three of the four chapters in Part III to be particularly interesting: The Problem(s) of Evil; The Hiddenness of God; and Hell.

In chapter 12, The Problem(s) of Evil, Copan has a section dealing with “Principalities and Powers”. I don’t recall seeing much reference to the effects of “principalities and powers” in other apologetic treatments of the problem of evil. It was a helpful perspective.

Chapter 13, dealt with “The Hiddenness of God” providing some probing thoughts on the matter. For example, to those who complain that God does reveal himself clearly enough, Copan suggests that perhaps, “the more evidence one has of God, the more resentful one might become toward him.” Copan quotes atheist Thomas Nagel who confesses that “he doesn’t want there to be a God.” I’ve read similar expressions from other atheists. For a person who feels this way, to have more revealing evidence from God of His existence probably would not be helpful or desired.

Chapter 15, “Hell”, was also interesting. One of the more fascinating ideas that Copan suggests is that in hell resistance to God is likely to increase rather than decrease. Says Copan, “despite hell’s miseries, the condemned wouldn’t prefer God’s presence; resistance continues in hell. The more they would be exposed to God, the more they would come to hate him.” In other words, it’s not likely that those in hell will be saying, “Hey, I’ve changed my mind, God, I love you! I’m ready for heaven now! Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound . . . !” He refers to the rich man suffering in Hades (Luke 16) pointing out that he “doesn’t necessarily prefer a God-centered existence; he just wants relief.”

I’ve also noticed that having read “Loving Wisdom” I feel much wiser. It’s almost as if I’ve had a Solomonic wisdom injection. You can probably tell just from reading this book review, huh? It’s clear that those who know me can sense a difference, they’ve started calling me, “Mr.-Know-It-All”.

That’s a good sign, right?

Dan Marler
Oak Lawn, IL

Is Christianity Good For the World?

Review of: "Is Christianity Good For the World?" by Douglas Wilson and Christopher Hitchens


“I wish you guys would continue debating a little bit longer.”

That’s what I told Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Wilson a couple of days ago. Neither one responded to me, which is reasonable since I was sitting in a room by myself. I had just finished reading “Is Christianity Good For The World”, which is a debate between Hitchens and Wilson that originally appeared in “Christianity Today”, a Christian magazine.

“Is Christianity Good For The World” is a short book, 67 pages, it was too short for me, I wish it would have been longer. But, again, no one’s listening to me.

I liked the topic, the value Christianity has or, from Hitchens’ perspective, doesn’t have in the world. Since Christianity is the largest and, arguably, most influential religion in the world, with adherents numbering in the billions, the topic is worthwhile.

I thought the debate format was an interesting treatment of the subject.

And the two debaters were excellent. On the anti-Christian side is writer, journalist, atheist, irascible public intellectual, the-always-interesting, Christopher Hitchens.

Defending the Christian position is pastor and really smart guy, Douglas Wilson. (My apologies to Wilson. I ran out of fun, descriptive words like “irascible” in my introduction of Hitchens.)

Both Wilson and Hitchens are witty, intelligent, well read, and capable intellectual defenders of their beliefs.

I admit that I’m biased, but I felt that Wilson made the stronger argument. When I refer to the “stronger argument”, it’s not just that I felt Wilson won the debate, but that his arguments were more convincing. And, interestingly, Wilson made some strong points that went unanswered by Hitchens.

Part of what makes Wilson’s success in the debate commendable is the fact that Hitchens is such a clever and witty writer that sometimes I suspect he wins support for his position just because he’s so entertaining.

A good, quick, fun, interesting book.

Dan Marler
Oak Lawn, IL

Wednesday, October 29, 2008

Have You Lied To Any Nazis Lately?

Review of "When God Goes To Starbucks", Paul Copan

Books which are written to answer “real” questions with practical, real-life wisdom need to grapple honestly, then, with the kind of authentic issues that cause people concern. Paul Copan’s, “When God Goes To Starbucks” does that admirably.

What are some of those real questions? Well, for example . . .

“Is it okay to lie to Nazis?”

[By the way, according to Copan, the answer is yes, “deception is morally permissible . . . under certain specific conditions.” But you have to read chapter 3 in the book to get the full explanation.]

“Does the Bible condemn loving, committed homosexual relationships?”

“Aren’t the Bible’s ‘Holy Wars’ just like Islamic Jihad?”

“Why are Christians so divided? Why so many denominations?”

[Copan is a very smart and highly educated man, but, he missed the obvious correct answer to these two questions. It’s simple to see that Christians wouldn’t be divided if everyone would just come to see things my way.]

Oh well, he did a pretty good job, other than that.

Copan has written several books along the lines of “When God Goes To Starbucks” and he does a good job of writing in a way that is accessible to regular people and, yet, provides thoughtful answers that are not so lightweight that they lack genuine intellectual substance.

From one of those “regular people” . . .

Dan Marler
Oak Lawn, IL

Thursday, October 16, 2008

If You Listen Carefully, You Can Hear The Atheists Screaming

What if a highly respected, well-known, Oxford-educated, atheist philosopher changed his mind, late in his career, and decided that he, now, believed in God?

You say, “Well, he would probably write a book with this kind of sub-title: ‘How The World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind.’”

You’re right. And that brings us to Antony Flew’s book and this review.

This book is a little bit autobiography and a good bit of philosophy with a little bit of the philosophy of science. (It’s everything I can do to resist some kind of reference to: it’s “a little bit country” and “a little bit rock and roll”.)

Flew provides a good bit of information about his background, and this helps the reader see the larger context of his life. I found this to be interesting.

To those of us who believe in God there is great satisfaction in the fact that Flew stresses, numerous times, that one of his guiding intellectual values has long been to follow the evidence wherever it leads. And “the evidence” has led him to this conclusion: “I now believe there is a God! So there!”

Alright, if you look in the book the “So there!” part isn’t really included in the text. But, in my imagination, it’s a nice little shot.

Flew provides his evidence for belief in God and makes a good argument.

It is also interesting and satisfying to theists that Flew credits recent scientific advances as a significant factor in his opinion regarding the existence of God. This is satisfying to theists because sometimes belief in God is portrayed as an entirely unwarranted; blind leap of faith; embraced by uneducated people—usually wearing no shoes or socks; with no rational basis whatsoever.

Since I’m a Christian, I found another line in the book to be quite pleasing. Flew says about Christianity, “If you’re wanting Omnipotence to set up a religion, this is the one to beat.”

I know, I know, atheists and non-Christians will find that to be ridiculous and aggravating. But, it’s still true that he wrote it. So there!

The book has two interesting appendices, one written by Roy Abraham Varghese, who is the co-writer of the book and one written by Bishop N.T. Wright. Bishop Wright’s essay on “The Self-Revelation of God in Human History” is outstanding.

Dan Marler
Oak Lawn, IL

Tuesday, September 23, 2008

Pursuit of Morals

*Note: This entry first appeared as a “Letter To The Editor” in the Southtown Star newspaper. In the published piece a couple of lines were edited out. I am including the edited lines here. This is my response to an editorial by the editors of the newspaper which ran on Sept. 7, 2008, entitled: “Radical Change Needed To Fix Societal Woes”.


Pursuit of Morals

I appreciated your editorial “Radical Change Needed To Fix Societal Woes”, September 7, 2008. You are certainly right that there are problems of violence in our culture that have morality at their root. And I join with you in admitting that these are not issues that have a quick and easy fix.

One of the questions that the editorial raised, for me, was “how do we inculcate and encourage good morals?” When we read that more120 people were shot and killed in Chicago this summer, it’s hard to avoid the issue of morality.

I would like to suggest that the inculcation and pursuit of morals will always require that truths about ourselves must be honestly faced—truths that will not necessarily be comfortable. As a culture, we seem to be pretty big on comfort and trying to ensure that no one ever feels guilty. I admit that I find that comfort-seeking tendency in myself, as well. However, wrestling, personally, with moral truth will often make us uncomfortable. This is a form of discomfort we must be willing to endure. Most of us would agree that it is a form of discomfort which is preferable to the discomfort of a bullet.

Also, morals, by definition, have to do with right and wrong and the pursuit of that which is right. This will mean that those who hold up standards of right and wrong—parents, teachers, clergy, and other leaders—should not be quickly and thoughtlessly labeled intolerant and small minded. Morality, in our culture, is sometimes actually discouraged because those who would champion standards of right and wrong fear being labeled as repressive, backward, and other names that are even less pleasant.

Also, some seem to have great disdain for the mention of God and/or religion along with the subject of morality. And it is understandable in a religiously pluralistic society that introducing God into the discussion could heat up the debate. However, the founders of our country assumed that our morality would involve God and that without that basis it would not work.

This is what George Washington said in his “Farewell Address” to our new young nation: “And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure--reason & experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

It can be difficult for naturalistic and materialistic worldviews to provide a solid philosophical basis for morality because they ultimately fall back to the kind of relativism that is part of the moral confusion that your editorial correctly laments.

So, even though I know references to God and religion can, in some ways, make the discussion of morality more difficult, the alternative seems to be to continue in the direction we are currently heading.

The obvious question is: How’s that working?

Dan Marler
Oak Lawn, IL